Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list gopher); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:06:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from floodgap.com ([66.159.214.137] ident=elvis) by glockenspiel.complete.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) id 1HbfLP-0005er-Kd for gopher@complete.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:06:59 -0500 Received: (from spectre@localhost) by floodgap.com (6.6.6.666.1/2007.01.03) id l3BG6noo010418 for gopher@complete.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:06:49 -0700 From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre@floodgap.com> Message-Id: <200704111606.l3BG6noo010418@floodgap.com> Subject: [gopher] Re: Mozilla bugs about Gopher, and a dangerous one In-Reply-To: <20070411104615.275a47eb@work1.hal3000.cx> from Chris at "Apr 11, 7 10:46:15 am" To: gopher@complete.org Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:06:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No (score 0.0): AWL=0.017 X-Virus-Scanned: by Exiscan on glockenspiel.complete.org at Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:06:59 -0500 X-archive-position: 1525 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: gopher-bounce@complete.org Errors-to: gopher-bounce@complete.org X-original-sender: spectre@floodgap.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: gopher@complete.org List-help: <mailto:ecartis@complete.org?Subject=help> List-unsubscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=unsubscribe> List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: Gopher <gopher.complete.org> X-List-ID: Gopher <gopher.complete.org> List-subscribe: <mailto:gopher-request@complete.org?Subject=subscribe> List-owner: <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org> List-post: <mailto:gopher@complete.org> List-archive: <http://www.complete.org/mailinglists/archives/> X-list: gopher

> As for having the search engines stick to port 70. > First I disagree, thats not a gopher problem its a moz problem .

I agree with this also. :2347 was always the standard Veronica port. In fact, it's non-standard of *me* to run V-2 on the regular port and I've even been mulling over putting a mirror onto port 2347.

> And that brings me back to... why? because Moz/Firefox is broken? > I understand you feel most people will be using Firefox. I also feel it > should be fixed, or drop gopher from it's core and have the option to open > lynx when a gopher:// address is used. Such as gopher has an option for a > web page. below is what shows up when going to an html page from gopher:

I think this was reasonable only in that specific situation, however. The gopher clients were never intended as multi-protocol systems, and it made good sense to spawn external handlers.

However, this is no longer the case as most web browsers handle the kitchen sink (as in "everything but the"). You still have browsers minimally handling FTP as a secondary protocol, for example, and people now expect a unified Swiss-Army knife solution. There are also lots of Windows users who don't have a secondary client.

Besides, the argument that it's broken and should be fixed or removed, frankly, applies just as well to HTML. Mozilla-core is less broken than Internet Explorer, but it still has its deficiencies :)

If we lose Mozilla-core support for gopher, this will be a serious blow to the community. I certainly intend to maintain the HTTP<->Gopher proxy, which is very popular, but it robs casual users of an easy path to browse Gopher if support were eroded further by forcing them to do more to get it.

-- --------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- It's tradition, that makes it okay. -- Weird Al, "Weasel Stomping Day" -----