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Accounting - Returned POWs Vessey 11/05/91 We know through extensive debriefings and subsequent investigations that all Americans seen by U.S. prisoners of war who did return in the Vietnamese prison system have been accounted for as either returned POWs are through the return for remains, or having been reported as died in captivity. Accounting - Left Behind Walters 09/21/92 Sen. Grassley: What happened in your view to those who we expected back who did not come back?

Walters: I think they killed them. They're that kind of people. Accounting- Left Behind Trowbridge 06/24/92 Until Homecoming, you expected them to come home alive. When they did not come home alive, you ceased to think they should be home alive. Archives Admiral Stockdale 12/03/92 Yes, they were just kind of -- the bureaucratic, the group we were dealing with, were the second- generation communists, the bureaucratic elite. They were inveterate note-takers, and they would have pockets full. Archives Childress 12/01/92 Childress: They will be very productive in Laos and continue to be. Archival records will give you fate. Unilateral Vietnamese action will give families answers.

Chairman Kerry: Well, archival records are also going to give you answers and oral histories are going to give you answers. We collected four of them in person, myself, four answers. And they came through oral history and archival information. Archives Childress 12/01/92 Chairman Kerry: Well, we are now getting access to a lot of those shoot-down reports and to the archival documents, obviously.

Childress: I've heard there's some summary documents coming in... from what I saw, that I think it's the tip of the iceberg and I think a lot of analysts feel that way as well. Archives DeStatte 12/04/92 Vice Chairman Smith: What is your sense of what we are getting? Is there more in the archives?

DeStatte: It's too early to make any definitive judgments on that right now, but some things we can say. Some of the information that we need to resolve, questions concerning the fate of our missing people, and ultimately to recover the individuals or their remains can be found scattered in the files and archives of individual units, local and province commands, regional commands.

But it's also certain that elements of the ministry of defense's general political directorate compiled records on U.S. POWs, and also on many of our MIAs. Those are records that were compiled at the central level... if the Vietnamese political leadership can persuade the general political directorate to share the information from those central records with our joint research teams, then we can get the quickest possible answers on the largest number of people. And I think that's what we should be pressing for. Archives Hrdlicka 12/03/92 Now, could we take a reality break here and apply simple logic? If we have these men, and in many cases we know they did, where are they? If they kept as meticulous records of shoot downs, subsequent capture and internment, as we know they have throughout history, as we have witnessed first-hand in Senator McCain's case, if they held our men past the end of the war, as they historically have in past conflicts with other powers, where are they? Archives Schweitzer 12/04/92 Chairman Kerry: Most people assert and there is evidence, in fact, that documents, that they kept pretty good records of the prison system, of the flow of information during the war. Is there not an easy way to unlock the key to what might have happened to that particular flyer or to some other person about whom we have a question and to recover the remains?

Schweitzer: Well, the key word in your question is, it ought to be, yes. There were orders from Hanoi throughout the war that any American who was captured or any American who was killed, there was to be a complete report made and sent to Hanoi.

But in the heat of battle in the war years where most, I think most of the soldiers -- a lot of times these reports just didn't get made. Sometimes they did get made and they didn't arrive in Hanoi. One specific case I was told about... a report was made and then before the group taking the report back to Hanoi could get there, they were all killed in a bombing attack. So that report never made it. Archives Schweitzer 12/04/92 When I told them that the documents and photos that they had in their archives were precious, back in 1989, they brought them to me by the thousands. They simply never knew what they had. And, to quote Benjamin Hoff, America took a thimble to the fountain in Hanoi, and then came home and complained that they hadn't been given enough. Archives Schweitzer 12/04/92 ...some people may ask if all this information is available in Vietnam, and if Vietnam so badly wants relations with the U.S., why don't they just give it all to us right now? Unfortunately for us, as well as for the Vietnamese, it's just not going to be that simple.

If all this information were already available, collected, and cataloged, and in some warehouse in Hanoi, the Vietnamese Government would like nothing better than to turn it all over to us, and then request a lifting of the embargo and the establishment of diplomatic ties.

However, while information on many missing Americans is available in Vietnam, it is not in official Vietnamese Government hands. The majority of this information is in the hands of retired People's Army Vietnam soldiers or civilians who are scattered all over Vietnam. There is a mountain of information out there.

But even with the fullest possible cooperation from the Vietnamese Government, it will take an enormous amount of goodwill, time, and work to locate these materials, collect them, and then catalog them.

Even though 19 years have passed since Operation Homecoming in 1973, we are just now beginning this massive undertaking which lies before us. Nearly every day, common people from all over Vietnam come to my office in Hanoi with some items of American memorabilia from the war. The work of the dedicated American analysts over there is just beginning. Archives Schweitzer 12/04/92 Chairman Kerry: Well, generically, when people say the Vietnamese have the answers. They have all these documents. Is there a central depository of a whole lot of documents that they could suddenly take a key and unlock it and it will answer all these questions?

Schweitzer: In the first place, really, the Vietnamese don't know exactly what they've got. It is not a system, a computerized system with an index to everything that's held in the central government's archive files. There may be more information there than we know of now. I think there's a lot of information there. Archives Smith 12/03/92 Vice Chairman Smith: So the answer is that nothing came back to give you a definitive time of death from the Vietnamese?

Otis: No.

Vice Chairman Smith: And certainly, you would agree, that they must know, if they are that meticulous, when he died and how he died.

Otis: Of course they knew when he died. They had him in captivity. As you say, they kept great records... I never really felt one way or the other whether he was alive or dead. I just know I didn't know and it was extremely frustrating because I knew the Vietnamese knew and they didn't bring him back one way or the other.

Vice Chairman Smith: So you knew nothing even at Homecoming. You had not heard a thing, correct? Nothing?

Otis: No, I heard nothing. Archives Tin 11/07/91 Once a POW is put in jail, he then had his own file in which detailed information was kept, such as what he had to eat, if he was sick, what medicine he used. The cadre had to report his behavior and thought process. And I believe that the files are still in Vietnam. China Mooney 01/22/92 ...in the Vietnam War, the Chinese had opportunity and motive to take American pilots. They were losing their Soviet connection for aircraft, so they were developing their own military-industrial complex... why go out and spend for research when you can quantum leap with an individual?

There is very little intelligence that we saw on the Chinese. . . They had the opportunity to shoot them down. They were shooting down American aircraft. They had motive. They were losing their technological base for aircraft from the Soviet Union and they had to start their own industrial complex. Pilots with experience would represent a quantum leap. So the only intelligence that we had was opportunity and motive. Classified Andrews 10/15/92 We have willingly made all of our documents available and we will willingly answer all of your questions. If we can't answer them in open session we will answer them in closed. We just have to do so in a responsible manner when dealing with sensitive intelligence or escape and evasion matters. If we divulge their trade craft used in either area it may cost American lives in future conflicts. Classified Andrews 10/15/92 Much of what we have discussed in closed meetings is based on current intelligence sources and methods. This is not, as some have charged, an attempt to hide a perceived Government failure to liberate our POWs. Rather, it is the fulfillment of our obligation to protect those intelligence means and methods vital to our global responsibilities in the defense of the Nation. Classified Bell 11/06/91 To be honest with you, sir, except for the 105 live-sighting investigations that are now still active, I don't see any reason to classify any of the other information... I think the only thing that needs to be sanitized or declassified from those reports is the name of the individual who provided the information. Classified Clements 09/24/92 At that time, those classifications were held within the services. In other words, the Navy classified their people, Army did theirs, and the Air Force did theirs. I want to make that very clear because it's important that your committee and the public at large understand that the office of the Secretary of Defense and/or the State Department and/or the National Security Council, nor the President had any control whatsoever over classification. That was strictly within the services. Classified Donahue 11/07/91 You see, here the problem is but one thing. It is secrecy. The war in Laos was a secret war. The POWs in Laos were secret. The POW and MIA intelligence is a secret still classified. And the roadmap is a secret, highly classified. Everything is a secret and is so only because of one thing. And that is because some people are hiding the truth. For them, the truth is too powerful for this country, too destructive for the morale of armed forces, and too debilitating to our national honor for it to be told. Classified Ford 11/15/91 Our ability to continue to collect information for the families and for other intelligence projects requires us to try to keep our sources and methods protected. We've used that more times than I would like to admit as an excuse, rather than as the real answer. I'm just simply telling you that that's over. We're going to find a way to do this. Classified Griffiths 12/01/92 The families voted against declassification of information under ongoing investigation or information that would jeopardize returning our loved ones alive or dead. That position still holds, and that is the position I continue to reflect. Classified Kerry/ 06/25/92 Smith Chairman Kerry: ...First of all, there has never been an issue about this committee seeking declassification... So there is a vote that is set and we have a process in place with Senator Robb and Senator Grassley, who are reporting to the committee; I think a letter is being drafted today. We are proceeding in a responsible way to try to figure out how to ask for the declassification to get the maximum declassification, but to protect those who deserve privacy in the process. All 12 Senators will vote on this issue, and the chair set out that would be an objective of this committee the day that you and I stood up together months ago and announced we should do this. So there is no new news in this call for declassification. We are going to do it, we have always been going to do it, and it is going to happen. Classified Kerry 11/15/91 ...I emphasize on behalf of the entire committee, and we have just in our own meeting with Senators confirmed, our inclination to proceed efficiently and quietly to a certain degree in these first months with a significant number of depositions and a significant number of private meetings in order to gather facts, and separate fact from fiction, and do the best job that we can of trying to lay out reality here.

I will confirm that every Member feels very strongly that no stone should be unturned, but every Member also feels very strongly that at the appropriate moment, obviously it all has to be laid out in public, or we become part of the problem and we do not intend to let that happen. Classified Kerry 06/25/92 Now the Committee is going to vote next week to declassify massively. I will state as a guiding principle, there is nothing the Committee does not want declassified, with the exception of something that can be legitimately shown to 12 Senators as being in current national security interest or something that protects sources and methods of the United States Government. Beyond that, we will have to have a strong showing of cause for why it should not be made public... Classified Perroots 12/01/92 Another valid criticism from my point of view is the over-classification of information on this subject. Classified Schlesinger 09/21/92 ...from time to time the restriction on intelligence simply to protect sources is such that many who might benefit from having that intelligence are denied that because it would reveal certain sources. Classified Schlesinger 09/21/92 ...from time to time intelligence is denied not simply to protect sources but to hold that intelligence in a narrow circle; to deny it to those who are outside of that circle either for reasons of internal bargaining or the like. Classified Sommer 11/06/91 We actually received more hard information from the Vietnamese than we have from the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Department of Defense, or any other American entity involved with this issue. Classified Wallace 11/06/91 Few pieces of information seem insignificant enough to avoid the secrecy stamp. If we are to believe our government, we must also believe that the POW information buried in their classified files is so sensitive that its declassification would have dire consequences and perhaps even pose a clear and present danger to the national security. Otherwise, why would the government continue to classify the overwhelming majority of the information gathered on this most important issue?

I do not believe the government can regain credibility on this issue or adequately defend itself so long as the very information needed for honest evaluation is kept from public view... Committee Grassley 06/24/92 ...expecting calm and order on this issue os like expecting cars and dogs to live in perfect harmony... the Chairman and Vice Chairman of this Committee have done next to the impossible in terms of keeping this Committee together, to keep it focused and conducting its oversight. Committee Grassley 11/15/91 The hearings have been, in my view, quite successful and surprisingly so to me because, Mr. President, I must admit that at first I had reservations about the utility of the committee's work starting with hearings... for fear that precious time would be diverted from the investigation aspects of the committee's work. Committee Kerrey 09/24/92 This Committee could very easily itself have moved in a direction where it accomplished nothing. I believe if we ended today, which some would argue we should -- if we ended today, this Committee will already have accomplished a great deal. Mr. Chairman, I have undying admiration and appreciation both for you and for Vice Chairman Smith for pursuing this, and I want to pay special tribute to, again, Senator Grassley, whose interest in declassification was early, was active, was strong, and I think has provided enormous benefit to the American people. Committee Kerry 11/06/91 ...the time has come for these kinds of allegations to be laid on the table, and for the sources not to be hidden from the Committee, at least. There is no way the Committee can proceed without that kind of information being put in front of it. So I ask you and anyone else who has that kind of information -- and you can hold this Senator and Senator Smith accountable, and I am sure you will if something happens... we rely on your cooperation to make that happen. Committee Kerry 12/03/92 That process of finding answers is what this Committee is all about. I can speak for every member of this Committee when I say that determination will continue on an individual level and with the other standing committees of this Senate even after this Committee itself has opened the doors on this issue and has ceased to exist. Committee Kerry 01/22/92 I hope you also appreciate that when I push you or when I push the line of questioning, it is without regard to who is sitting in front of me. I am going to push both sides as much as possible to be able to help the Committee make its judgments. Committee Kerry 01/22/92 [Intelligence service employees] are not permitted to deny information to this committee on the basis of that [secrecy] oath... we intend to put them under oath and depose them, and we will subpoena them if necessary. So in terms of enticement, they are invited today to come forward with an understanding that if they do not come forward on their own, the greater likelihood is that the committee is going to find an opportunity for them to have to appear. Committee Kerry 01/21/92 I want people to understand, again, that the committee is not withholding information or deep-sixing anything. All of it will be made public. But the Committee feels that when it is given a name, as a matter of investigative integrity it is sometimes more important for the Committee to be able to get investigators to the people before they are publicly identified so that there is less time or less capacity for fabrication of a story, and so that the Committee has an opportunity to determine whether there are any outside pressures or other influences that might be affecting that person's capacity to give us a straight story. Committee Kerry 09/22/92 I know this is difficult, I wish there was a way to make it easy, and it is not, and we acknowledge that. But we are not here seeking to re-fight the Vietnam War. We are not trying to renegotiate the peace agreement or to reopen wounds of that era, as difficult as it is to avoid them... We also are not trying to question dedication or patriotism or commitment to the task that existed back in 1972.

All Americans of a certain age, whether Senators or former Government officials, POW families, veterans, or just plain citizens, bring to any discussion of Vietnam a set of emotions and memories, some of which may be among the strongest and most vivid of a lifetime. We cannot ignore or deny those memories, or simply wish them out of existence, but neither should we let them control or influence the purpose or integrity of this committee's work...

We remain in the process of gathering information and insights and trying to understand why certain things were done, why certain things were not done, what options were available to those who had the tough task of making decisions at one of the toughest times in American history. Committee Kerry 09/24/92 ...folks, this issue was not created by the United States Congress 20 years later. This issue is an issue of grassroots momentum. There is not a place I have gone in the last years in this country where someone has not come up to me and said, why are you not doing anything on this? Where are the answers? And the families, particularly, have carried this with them for these 20 years.

Now, at a time in our government when American citizens feel that the government has broken most bonds of trust with every citizen, it is hardly appropriate for us to just turn our backs and say, this is not relevant. I view these hearings not just as an effort to get to the truth of what happened. I view them also as an effort by elected officials to try to prove that we can do our job, and that we can reestablish that sense of credibility between citizens who expect us to ask tough question. Committee Kerry 12/03/92 I hope we not limit our focus this morning to the past. A big part of this Committee's job is to translate lessons learned and experiences that have been felt into recommendations for future action and into our understanding as a Committee so that we can share that understanding with the American people. Committee Kerry 11/15/91 I want to ensure all people who are interested in the public aspect of this inquiry that the fact that we are not having a public hearing does not mean we are hiding anything, nor does it mean that we are not doing anything. It means we are going to proceed to do our homework. There clearly will be public sessions as we proceed, and all data that we can conceivably make available to the public -- with the exception of compromising national security, as a judgment made by 12 United States Senators -- will be made public as we proceed. Committee Kerry 11/15/91 This Committee is not going to tolerate folks who want to use us as some kind of springboard or platform for wild-eyed, cock-eyed theories that have no basis in fact whatsoever. We are going to be tough with respect to that, and we have a process set up to try to do it -- but we do not want at the end of this process anybody who has legitimate information to feel that this committee was not receptive to it. Committee McCain 09/24/92 ...the fact is that you and Senator Smith have conducted these hearings in a fair and unbiased manner... Committee Mooney 01/22/92 Most of the negotiations on this issue have been by policy makers. They go there with a specific opinion and they're not going to breach from that. For the first time, you're going to have Senators going there. You guys know how to wheel and deal. You know how to compromise. Maybe this is the proper approach... Maybe if you would go there with this attitude of specific knowledge and talk to these people and show them respect and gain respect from them, it might open doors. Committee Mooney 01/22/92 ...when this committee was formed, and it was announced that this committee would investigate the MIA/POW issue, I had doubts, serious doubts. Because in six years, I had not one success. All I had was criticism and to be debunked. When I was asked to visit with your committee people last week, I was eager to come because I had to find out for myself what this committee was about. Was it going to be another dog and pony show, or were you for real?

I was deposed for a day and a half. It was professional, it was thorough, it was incisive, it was tough, and in one particular case it was painful. But it was the best deposition or best questioning I've had to date. Based on that, I am sitting here to tell you, and to tell everybody who is watching or listening, that you are for real. You will get to the bottom of this issue. And I am willing to pass the torch on to you. I will keep the matches just in case I have to light up again, but the torch now belongs in your hands.

That deposition proved to me that you will fulfill your promise to leave no stone unturned, to find not my truth or anybody else's truth, but the truth. I hope those listening who have knowledge will believe that and come forward. Committee Mooney 01/22/92 Over the years, I've had many people call me from the business; 99 percent of them will not identify themselves, and they say one thing consistently: "I will not come forward because I do not think you can win... "They feel they will not be believed. I think if this committee applies its mission with honor, with dignity, and with clear objectives, the people will step forward... I hope they do, because it is that important. This is our best chance and this is, in my opinion, our last chance. Committee Mooney 01/22/92 I'm just the tip of the iceberg... You need more than people like me, people who work in the field and who have the first blush with intelligence. You have to get beyond us, you have to get up to where the intelligence is interpreted and used for policy and politics. Committee Quinn 11/15/91 As a citizen, I sort of grieve over the fact that we have this problem so long after the war. It still is a sore that has not healed and has not been dealt with. I think that what you and the Committee are doing is going a long direction in letting our citizens know exactly what is involved. Committee Smith 09/21/92 Vice Chairman Smith: The American people, I believe, are a great people, and I think they will accept anything as long as they are told the truth... There could be 500 people in Vietnam and Laos. There could be none. But the point is: the reason why the Committee is in existence, the reason why you are here, and the reason why the debate is still raging is because the American people do not believe that their government has told them the truth... Committee Steadman 12/02/92 ...Perhaps because the issue has been so contentious over the years, maybe Congress didn't exercise its oversight role as strongly as it could have. And this panel, this Committee, has reversed that, and in doing so you've brought the issue squarely in front of the American public and squarely on the doorstep of the Southeast Asian governments.

You've also brought information forward which allows the American public now to make informed judgments about this issue, and I think your final report should state whether Congress should continue its investigation. You should make an informed judgment on that, whether investigation is required, further investigation is required, further oversight is required, or perhaps both are required. Committee Tighe 06/24/92 I believe that you are compiling the largest and most comprehensive body of evidence on the subject of missing in military action that has ever been assembled. Committee Vessey 06/25/92 ...more needs to be made public and I commend the Committee. I think I saw the broadcast of your Southeast Asian trip, those were superb. The clips from those, that trip and the American public desperately needs to see the whole picture rather than sensational tidbits that come out. So I certainly commend the Committee for its work and I think the Committee's report eventually will turn out to be one of the most important documents we have in the public record. Conspiracy Andrews 12/03/92 ...I believe that neither this Committee nor the American people can expect that the whispers of conspiracy will ever go away. I am convinced that no matter how many files are opened, no matter how many witnesses are interviewed, no matter how many crash sites are sifted through, there will always be those who will see it in their own selfish interest to inject distrust into this issue. The antidote to this is openness. Conspiracy Baker 08/12/92 I cannot think of a single thing that suggests to me that there was a conspiracy of silence or any active conspiracy or any other kind of conspiracy... Conspiracy Bell 11/06/91 I don't think there's been a cover- up, sir, but I think it's possible that information was not acted upon. Conspiracy Burch 11/06/91 The media have been whispered off the track with anonymous comments that there are no live POWs... Conspiracy Christmas 06/25/92 Mr. Chairman, my experience is that most people who become well-informed on this issue have no trouble agreeing that the accounting for our missing men means obtaining information from Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. Those who maintain that there is some secret set of files being kept by misguided U.S. Government personnel intent on maintaining some bizarre cover-up are deluding themselves and the American people.

The answers are in Southeast Asia and that is where the U.S. Government is, correctly in my view, putting its emphasis. Conspiracy Clapper 12/01/92 To suggest that we are somehow part of a conspiracy is certainly absurd, if not insulting. I take it as a personal insult that anyone would suggest that I've had any part in a conspiracy. Conspiracy Ford 11/15/91 There is no conspiracy to purge records. The Department of Defense does not maintain fingerprint records. The FBI is the sole agency with that responsibility. Conspiracy Kassebaum 6/25/92 I am just not one who believes in conspiracy theories, but I think unfortunately because we have been such a long time coming to terms with this and doing it in a way and being as forthright as possible we have created and added a great deal of sorrow and confusion to the process. Conspiracy Kerry 11/15/91 I do not, in God's name, know how you can begin to do this process unless we will trust some people on the ground in Vietnam to build some relationships and make some judgments about those relations. Somewhere along the line here, somebody has got to begin to believe that not every American working for the United States Government is going to become part of some process to hide Americans in Vietnam. Conspiracy Kerry 12/01/92 Chairman Kerry: ...in any of your review or at any time that you have been in contact with this issue, did you find any evidence whatsoever to suggest to you that there was a conscious cover-up on this issue or conspiracy to withhold it from proper analysis and pursuit? Mr. Wiand?

Wiand: No...

Hargis: No...

Nagy: No...

Brooks: Absolutely not...

Gaines: Absolutely not... Conspiracy Kissinger 09/22/92 What has happened to this country that a Congressional committee could be asked to inquire whether any American official of whatever administration would fail to move heaven and earth to fight for the release of American POWs and for an accounting of the missing? Can anyone seriously believe that any honorable public official would neglect America's servicemen, and especially those who suffered so much for their country or, even worse, arrange for a conspiracy to obscure the fate of the prisoners left behind?

Personally, I have no proof whether Americans, live Americans, were kept behind by Hanoi. The Vietnamese are certainly capable of such a cynical act, and of lying about it. If any prisoners were held back, however, there can be only one guilty party. Conspiracy Kissinger 09/22/92 There is no excuse, two decades after the fact, for anyone to imply that the last five Presidents from both parties, their White House staffs, Secretaries of State and Defense, and career diplomatic and military services either knowingly or negligently failed to do everything they could to recover and identify all of our prisoners and MIAs. Conspiracy Lord 09/21/92 Chairman Kerry: ...But as major public policy makers of that period and also public servants helping the American public understand this and looking at this can you understand why still today there are people who believe that they were misled, that the government was in a conspiracy, that they were lied to and that they have been led down the path over the years after those comments, given the evidence, is it understandable?

Lord: I think it's understandable. I think some of the terms you used are unfair, but I can understand why people might harbor these doubts. Conspiracy Lundy 11/06/91 ...my father had top-secret security clearance, nuclear, intelligence... How could there not be fingerprints in my father's file?... there is a letter in his file that says, 'attached are forms and fingerprint cards on the above subject'... This is a smoking-gun letter that there is cover-up in our government. Conspiracy McCain 09/24/92 Sen. McCain: Do you believe that there was any conspiracy to cover up the existence of any live Americans either in Laos or anywhere in Southeast Asia?

Secord: No, sir, I don't. I've never seen any evidence of that.

Sen. McCain: Do you believe that it would have been possible, without the knowledge of a number of military officers and enlisted people such as yourself who were in some way in the loop?

Secord: No. There are so many people in that loop that it would not have been possible, in my opinion. Conspiracy Perroots 08/12/92 Sen. McCain: In order for a cover-up to be successful as has been alleged, it would have taken the active participation of hundreds if not thousands of military personnel?

Perroots: Yes, sir. Conspiracy Perroots 12/01/92 ...most emphatically, Mr. Chairman, the allegation of a cover-up or a conspiracy, [is] the most serious invalid, criticism. Conspiracy Sieverts 06/25/92 ...a great many dedicated people... worked on this subject for many years, and we are well aware that the passage of time has not healed the wounds or brought comfort to the families whose hopes have been repeatedly raised and dashed. Conspiracy Vessey 06/25/92 Sen. McCain: Have you ever seen any evidence of any conspiracy or cover- up?

Vessey: No, sir, I have not.

Sen. McCain: Did you when you were in your position as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff?

Vessey: No, sir.

Sen. McCain: Or at any other time in your military career?

Vessey: No, sir. Conspiracy Vessey 06/25/92 Sen. McCain: In order for there to be a conspiracy or a cover-up of this issue, do you agree with me that it would have required the active participation of hundreds of members of the military?

Vessey: Yes, sir. And I think that's an improbable sort of thing. American soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines are not conspirators. It's hard to keep military secrets long enough to get the operation going along without the enemy knowing what's going on. Even at the time when we were at low ebb, we still had 100-and-some-odd people involved, and those rotated. Many of them rotated every two or three years. So I'd say the prospect or probability of a conspiracy being kept without it being blown wide open is almost zero. Cooperation Armitage 08/12/92 Just to sum up clearly, the governments of Vietnam, Laos, and what passes for a government in Cambodia, have to open up and give full and complete access to Americans upon request, with no waiting periods, et cetera, before we can begin to put it at rest. Cooperation Bell 11/06/91 Bell: ...I think the Vietnamese right now today are just as far along in this issue as they choose to be.

Chairman Kerry: Does that mean they could choose to be further along?

Bell: Yes, sir. Cooperation Bell 11/06/91 To resolve these cases, as well as the live-sighting reports, we need to meet with cadre who were involved in the detention of American POWs and also to have access to Vietnam's wartime historical archives. We have had access to some records and witnesses' testimony which has matched that obtained from witnesses no longer under Vietnamese control. This is a good sign, but it is readily apparent to me, my fellow investigators, and our intelligence analysts that the Vietnamese can do more. Cooperation Cheney 11/05/91 Vietnamese cooperation on these joint investigations has improved, but despite these improvements, we are still not satisfied with Vietnam's performance... Too often, our office finds that public pronouncements of increased cooperation by Hanoi do not produce satisfactory arrangements on the ground. Promises to cooperate on live sightings, improved helicopter transportation, and complete access to historical records remain only partially fulfilled... If we ever hope to achieve the fullest possible accounting in a reasonable period of time, Vietnamese unilateral efforts, as well as their participation in joint activities, will have to dramatically improve. Cooperation Childress 08/12/92 ...when I left, our estimate was that the Vietnamese could account for hundreds of cases easily. Cooperation Childress 12/01/92 Chairman Kerry: I think on the enemy proselytizing materials, we do not have evidence that that actually still exists. We know they had it, but we do not know it exists today. Is that not accurate?

Mr. Childress: The original stories Hanoi said was that they had no records at all, they were eaten with termites, they were the rest. Now, as I said in my original testimony before this committee, Vietnamese dialogue with you is not evil, but it's certainly not in the western sense.

Chairman Kerry: Oh, absolutely. Cooperation Childress 08/12/92 ...Now, when I say resolve easily hundreds of cases, I mean either you either have a live prisoner, remains, or an explanation why neither is possible through archival research or the rest. And in those categories, there are many hundreds of cases they can resolve for us. Cooperation Childress 12/01/92 Chairman Kerry: Let me say to you that there is no naivete on the part of the committee about this process and its past, you know.

Childress: Right. And we've had many denials.

Chairman Kerry: Information has been withheld. We have not always been told the truth. We understand that and we go into that with open eyes... Cooperation Childress 12/01/92 Chairman Kerry: Imagine that when the ministry of foreign affairs in Vietnam says, oh, yes, we are going to get this stuff and we want to be helpful, but you have a lot of gnomes within the ministry of defense who only remember fighting us and are still fighting us and do not want to change, that those documents are not forthcoming. There are difficulties in that process also, I am sure you will agree.

Childress: I absolutely acknowledge those and I think we're on the right track in this sense, that the Vietnamese agreed that they would pursue unilateral efforts. Most of the progress we've had in terms of resolving cases have not come from joint efforts, have come from unilateral Vietnamese decisions. And to the extent the Vietnamese mean this and we should encourage it; we should also be prepared to underwrite it if needed. Cooperation Christmas 06/25/92 Christmas: In the area of archival research and in the area of documents provided, there is an area where we need help, where they can, in fact, provide a great deal more. Our investigators as they go out --

Sen. McCain: What do you speculate is the reason they have not been more cooperative in that area?

Christmas: Sir, I think it is a matter, as Gen. Vessey, I thought, pointed out very well; you may, at the central government level say, this is what we are going to do. But when it comes down to action at the district or province level, that may not -- it gets the slows -- whether or not that it is going to take place. The other one where we have difficulty is the trilateral agreements or trilateral talks and cross-border operations. That is at a standstill right now, Senator, and it's at a standstill for a number of reasons. both the Lao and the Cambodians have been very reluctant to trilateral talks. The Vietnamese based on the committee getting out there said, yes, you can go from Vietnam into Laos because, in some places, that is the only way you can get into where crash sites would have been. The Lao have disagreed with that and have said, no, we will not allow that. They have also disagreed with trilateral talks.

So I think the point is, we are making measured progress. Can we make more? Sure we can. I think in Vietnam that progress will continue if we continue to accelerate our operations, continue to keep our folks in country face to face with the Vietnamese. Cooperation Christmas 06/25/92 The key element of information is missing: the current location of the person or his remains. This is why we need Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia to share whatever records they possess on American prisoners and the missing, and make available for interview former members of their military units. Cooperation Christmas 12/04/92 Chairman Kerry: So I take it, it is your judgment that we are moving down the road...

Christmas: It's certainly my judgment, sir. If you remember, we talked before about the agreements that were made between Le Mai and then Assistant Secretary Solomon -- five agreements: expanded operations, live sighting mechanism, archival research, and so forth. Of at least three of those, we have had substantial movement and substantial progress from the February of this year when those agreements were made. So there has been progress, and what we need to do, as the Admiral has said, is just keep pressing. Cooperation Christmas 11/05/91 The Pacific Command, in conjunction with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Department of Defense, has moved quickly to capitalize on the favorable climate of cooperation in Vietnam. We plan to execute a comprehensive casualty resolution campaign on a scale which the Department of Defense has wanted to carry out since the signing of the Paris Accords in 1973, but could not because of Vietnam's intransigence.