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Newsgroups: rec.backcountry From: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) Subject: [l/m 11/5/92] Telling questions r.b. Turing test DW: (20/28) XYZ Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 12:20:16 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jan20.122016.12655@nas.nasa.gov> Lines: 546

Descriptive portion of the test

True or false: New York is where I'd rather stay. I get allergic smelling hay. I just adore a penthouse view. Darling I love you, but give me Park Avenue. If True, hit 'n' now.

Thermarest index: For sleeping (select one) A) Bed (perhaps water) with a canopy and mirror above are required. B) A feather bed is the ONLY requirement. C) A nice firm mattress suits me fine, a hotel room or vehicle will do. D) A tent over my head is a necessity. E) A Thermarest is the only way to go. F) An Ensolite is quite adequate for me. G) A flat bed of sand is enough in summer time. H) Any flat ledge is comfortable. Pad? Too heavy.

Water index: I) Perrier, s'il vous plait?

J) In the desert, I insist the water I drink be clear and bug free.

K) I have to be able to clearly see the bottom of the cut before I drink the water.

L) The presence of a few floaters, sinkers or suspensions in my water does not bother me. Zooplankton add protein.

M) A little grit helps the digestive tract.

Fire index: N) Nothing like a nice, big, roaring camp (bon) fire. Makes it feel homey.

O) Ugh! Can we make Red-man fire?

P) Fire?! I'm telling Smokey the Bear on you!

Fire index 2 (aka stove index): Q) I know how to use the microwave

R) Gas heats best.

S) Priming? I prefer Bleuet

T) I eat food cold.

U) Svea priming? No sweat, just slobber with fuel.

V) MSR priming? Sure, in a tent.

Can you explain how a Svea, Primus, or Optimus stove works?

Fire index 3:

V) I can't even get my stove to light.

W) "I love the smell of napalm in the morning."

X) Douce with white gas and light.

Y) Start stove. Start wood fire using the stove.

Z) Matches/Bic lighter

A) Flint and steel

B) Rub two sticks

Earth index: Which word do you use with frequency:

C) Dirt (or mud)

D) Soil (or loam)

E) Earth (or regolith)

Fauna Index F) Animals! Ugh! Dirty.

G) Animals! Ah, so cute, don't you just want to feed them?

H) Well, we're not supposed to, but just a little crumb is okay.

I) Nope, nothing what so ever. Camp robbers!

J) Nope, nothing what so ever. Natural foods for you.

K) Don't get started.

Mosquito index: L) A pit helmet and net for me.

M) DEET is fine.

N) Bugs? What bugs?

O) When you swat a mosquito and it falls into you food, you think: Fresh protein.

Plant index: Terminology Which word do you use with frequency: P) Weeds

Q) Plants

R) Flora

On a scale of 1-10, rate the value of toilet paper.

Bathing/Washing Index: Note the maximum number of days you would go without a bath or shower: (Simple hand washings can be ignored [assume IEEE Floating Point: Inf is an option])

Technology index: S) The thin mylar spaceblankets reflect 90% of your body's heat back to you. They are quite adequate.

T) Clothing colors must coordinate like Liz Claiborne.

U) A down comforter is the way to go.

V) Everything should be Patagonia (or LL Bean).

W) Covered in thick rugged wool from head to toe (olive drab is the usual color).

X) What ever I can afford. If I can pay for fiberfill, then so be it.

Compass index:

Y) Why bother? The only use of a topo map I know is to start fires.

Z) Ask someone which way is north.

A) I can use a compass to find magnetic north.

B) I can use a compass and the magnetic declination to find true north.

Navigation index:

C) I need a (large) landmark that I know I'm South of.

D) I need a compass to find north

E) I can find the north star on a clear night

F) If the sun is shining then I can find north using a watch or a 3 foot stick.

Swim index I:

H) Where's the hot tub?

I) Not unless it's heated and chlorinated.

J) Only if it is fairly weed and algea free.

K) As long as it's wet and ice free.

L) Chop a hole in the ice and jump in.

Swim index II:

M) Not without a swimsuit.

N) Underware will do in a pinch.

O) Skinnydipping is ok if I'm alone.

P) Skinnydipping is ok if no members of the opposite sex are near.

Q) I don't care who is watching. Just grin and "bare" it.

Temperature index (i.e. temperature ranges one is willing to be outside [with adequate clothing and water]) R) 60 to 70F S) 40 to 80F T) 20 to 90F U) 0 to 100F V) -20 to 110F W) absolute zero to infinity.

Real test starts here: Telling questions:

You are hiking on a trail when you catch up to another party travelling in the same direction but slower. Do you: a) Pass them without saying a word. b) Ask to pass. c) Stay behind them. Why? Name other conditions which may effect this answer.

You are packing with friends who are enjoying those dehydrated meals (you know, the same ones you eat). As you are cleaning up for the evening, you notice your friend throw that nice little foil and plastic pouch into the fire. What do you do?

Would you be backpacking|climbing, etc. if the equipment weighed twice as much?

Driving home on a steep, twisty mountain road at night. You come upon an accident. The fire danger is very high. Do you put road flares out?

You, your spouse, and your child have an accident. Given an equal probability of rescue, which you can only do once, who do you save?

You witness two people wander onto a frozen lake and fall thru. What is the first rule of rescue?

Is the privilege of just seeing Yosemite enough?

How much would you pay for gas to visit the backcountry?

You are on Mt. Everest. Two members of your international team were climbing high. A tyrolean traverse was needed to return. The German member thought nothing of this section and started back, but his partner, the Indian member had trouble. The German waited and stompped his feet until he could take it no more. He went back to camp and got you the assistant climbing leader. You rushed up high as quickly as your could with 6 other members. You wisely grabbed a set of ski poles as wands to find your way back. Night is approaching and a storm is coming. You reach the Indian; he is badly frozen but alive. The members decide to try to lower into a crevice to escape the storm. Hacking together available fixed rope, you lower the stricten Indian, but you are 40 feet, too short. What do you do?

See the film Back to the Future III. In one scene, the character Marty gets some water. Would you drink it?

You are faced with making a dicey rock climbing move. Your only real hold is a locker finger jam. If you bury your finger in the jam and fall, you will most likely severely damage/lose the finger. If you loosely grip the hold, you will probably fall. How do you make the move?

A heel hook is the most secure way to make the move, but if you fall upside down while hooking, you may get hurt.

If you try to clip a fixed piece midway through a strenuous crux, you will probably pump out and fall, but if you don't clip it you may take a long whipper.

If you try to make turns while skiing an icy slope, you will probably fall, but if you don't make turns, you may develop a dangerous amount of speed.

True or false: The natural world exists and only has value in the context of Mankind.

If you take the bivy sack to the summit, you will probably need it, but if you don't....

You are driving to the woods. You arrive at a broken traffic intersection street light. Four cars arrive simultaneously from each of the four directions. Who goes first?

You are offered a class on wilderness medicine on a given weekend. You were hoping to go backpacking that weekend. Do you take the class or do you go backpacking (and hope you will not need the class before you have another chance to take it)?

Is there a situation where you would break the law to defend your family? To defend your home? To defend your environment?

Your new husband is from Alaska, "the frozen state," do you move up there and join him?

Your new wife is from New York City, the concrete jungle. Do you move there to join her?

You are snowmobiling in Yellowstone in winter. You see a bison break thru the ice into the frozen river. Assume you have a rope. Do you rescue the bison? A ranger comes by, what do you think the ranger would say?

Would you defend your family, even if it meant breaking the law? Would you defend your house, when only property and not life was threatened, even if it meant breaking the law? Would you defend your environment, even if it meant breaking the law?

You come across a pair of turkeys busyly making sure that there will be a new generation of turkeys. Do you watch quietly, make some noise (so that they know you are there) or leave (letting them have some privacy)? What if they are human instead of feathered? What if the story involved bears|bares instead?

If a tree falls in a forest and no human is around, does it make a sound? If a tree falls in a forest and no human is around, does it have data?

At what age, or how do you tell, when you become too old to drive?

Rappeling has been justly flamed in many recent posts - but I have to respond a little. Not every group of rappelers you encounter out are necessarily rap-junkie nerds. I helped teach a vertical techniques class to a group of cavers a couple weeks ago - and vertical techniques for cavers means rappel and jumar practice. Your choice - you are several hours underground, following a good breeze down a streamway, and you come to the top of a pit of unknown depth. Typically, it is smooth walled and overhanging. Rappel or downclimb? Remember, this is a stream passage - whatever you do, you are going to be in the water. Ok, so you rap the pit...on the return trip, you are now confronted by an overhanging, smooth walled, waterfall - that happens to have a nice static rope hanging down in it. Climb, perhaps using the rope as a top belay, or jumar? Second scenario: El Sotano de las Golondrinas, Mexico. Here you have a pit some 200 feet in diameter, opening to the surface, which bells out quickly below the lip. On the near side, the bottom is 1100 feet straight down. The walls of the pit are pretty solid near the top, but very rotten in several layers. Downclimb or rappel? You rap, of course, assuming you planned ahead and brought adequate rope (we had a 1500' PMI when I was there a few years back). You rig off a block that hangs over the edge, and never touch the wall after the first five feet - by the time you reach the bottom, the walls are many hundred feet distant. Ascent: climb or jumar? Jumar, of course - but if you are going to be doing much of this kind of thing, you are going to develop some strange systems for climbing rope. Two jumars and a pair of etriers just don't cut it after a couple hundred feet of free hanging rope.

Do you trench your tent?

You are skiing in mountainous backcountry with a group of five skiers. The trail emerges from the trees on a sidehill. Trees are absent above and below the trail, but reappear about 150 feet ahead. What do you do? Suppose you are on the return leg of a 15 mile loop. What do you do? Consider equipment you may have and weather conditions over the past month when solving the problem.

You are to lead a backcountry skiing day trip. The trip is only 6 miles long, round trip. The elevation is over 11,000 feet. The sky is clear. Two members of the group show up expecting to ski in blue jeans. Do you allow them to go?

Your car dies in a desert, 30 miles from the nearest town. It is early morning and the temperature is already over 100 degrees. No one will miss you for the next week (you are on vacation). No one is likely to drive past in the next week either. You only have 1 quart of water. Do you stay with the car or start walking to town? Do you drink the the water as you feel you are thirsty or do you try to ration it?

You tend to participate in activities above your skill level, i.e. ski black slopes as an intermediate skier, do not attend classes, or use gear designed for teh activity (i.e. backpacking w/ only an old sleeping bag, a zippo lighter, a bag of tortilla chips and a Sunday paper). Is ths acceptable behaviour? Does the 'go with the flow' attitude enhance or detract from the experience? Does the 'well, I won't hurt abyone else if I screw up' attitude remove moral culpability?

Five guys are crossing a glacier near the Chinese border, a kind of neutral strip. They spent 2 months for getting a permit to there - they had to convince the Border Guard. Suddenly a military helicopter drops them a capsule. Inside is an order to come back. Should they go back =?

A band of four is swiftly skiing across a treeless rugged backountry towards the ridges of Ural. They do it for 4 days, crossing numerous passages. All of a sudden, one of them tells to their leader that he has a stomach ulcer and it just turned worse. =?

You just went to sleep at your tent in a nice valley of Caucasus. Suddenly a ranger wakes you up asking for help and good anesthetics: somebody up there fell and has a vertebrae problem. Surprisingly you have what they haven't. A night ascent -> that lady with crushed vertebrae is not to be brutally transported -> there's a chance to get a copter, but no walkie-talkie. These poor rangers have a car radio below in the valley. You spend the rest of the night to get there. There really is one ranger in the car, and he's absolutely drunk, barely able to say something. he says: tha-yk! you guys yek! would you -wmmm? drink too - =?

You got a ticket to a plane that flies from the city of Norilsk to a frozen lake at Putorana Mountains, some 300 miles ahead. The plane appears to be out of order, so you are told to be ready to use the next flight - which is 2 weeks later. Meanwhile, your permit is issued by the Border Guard and expires a month later. It's possible to get to mountains by ski - their foothills are just in 140 miles from you. =?

You just broke/lost your compass in the middle of an eight hour (or eight day) hike and you are in a maze of twisty little valleys very similar. How can you find your way out? (assume going down stream will not get you to civilianization in a reasonable time.)

Before you are the disassembled parts of a high powered hunting rifle and the assembly directions written in Swahili, in five minutes an angry rhino will charge into your room. Solve this problem.

YOU ARE IN A MAZE WITH TWISTY PASSAGES ALL ALIKE.

What is the role of forgetting to an AI system?

Can you prove your educational flexibility?

You are in the desert, at your feet is a tortoise. The tortoise is laying on his back in the hot desert sun.....

Good questions always sought.

If you think the out of doors is a social process or a social club, that the forest is like Bambi, or Rambo, or the movies, you are mistaken. This is how track skiers and sport climbers get into trouble in increasing numbers. Get out while you can.

--rec.backcountry.nimng ranger

TABLE OF CONTENTS of this chain:

20/ "Telling questions" backcountry Turing test <* THIS PANEL *> 21/ AMS 22/ Words from Foreman and Hayduke 23/ A bit of song (like camp songs) 24/ What is natural? 25/ A romantic notion of high-tech employment 26/ Other news groups of related interest, networking 27/ Films/cinema references 28/ References (written) 1/ DISCLAIMER 2/ Ethics 3/ Learning I 4/ learning II (lists, "Ten Essentials," Chouinard comments) 5/ Summary of past topics 6/ Non-wisdom: fire-arms topic circular discussion 7/ Phone / address lists 8/ Fletcher's Law of Inverse Appreciation and advice 9/ Water Filter wisdom 10/ Words from Rachel Carson 11/ Snake bite 12/ Netiquette 13/ Questions on conditions and travel 14/ Dedication to Aldo Leopold 15/ Leopold's lot. 16/ Morbid backcountry 17/ Information about bears 18/ Poison ivy, frequently ask, under question 19/ Lyme disease, frequently ask, under question