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Aucbvax.5925 fa.info-vax utcsrgv!utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!info-vax Sat Jan 23 06:22:06 1982

>From RWK@MIT-MC Sat Jan 23 06:18:43 1982 In-reply-to: The message of 22 Jan 82 01:10-EST from RJF at MIT-MC

From: RJF@MIT-MC Date: 01/22/82 01:10:39 Subject: unix vs. vms. ... Work done on VMS is less portable. Operating-system/machine independence is a virtue often overlooked by those who program in C. BLISS is much more portable between byte-addressable machines and non-byte-addressable machines, just to compare with the other major "implementation language". If you're REALLY interested in portability above all the other issues, use FORTRAN.

2. While UNIX may not have exactly the features you want, there is a somewhat receptive community considering changes, and thus mis-features may be corrected. Even whole subsystems (e.g. file system) can be altered. VMS, by comparison, has a much more diverse constituency, including COBOL types, And is usable by a more diverse consituency. the code is expensive to change (even to get a copy of the code in machine-readable form is moderately big bucks), and it seems that DEC is (probably for good financial reasons) not eager to shake its own boat.

I think DEC has a much more reasonable viewpoint of the apropriate modularity for system enhancements. I can ship CHAOSnet software that includes 2 or 3 device drivers and a couple of new system calls, and it can be installed by any competent system manager (not system hacker!) in 15 minutes with no need for editing the source code, and no possibility of conflicting with other features edited into the source for other enhancements obtained elsewhere.

It is NOT so much a feature that you CAN modify the unix system to put in new features, rather it is a BUG that you HAVE to.

Of course, it is true that sometimes you can't get what you want without modifications, but with a flexible and rich inner system this is reduced to a rarity.

Another feature of VMS is that DEC has no committment to running it or any application software on PDP-11's. While I am sympathetic to the desire to retrofit powerful software to PDP-11's, I fear this may hold back unix's evolution.

I think the problems with VMS are easier to fix than those with unix, and some of them are even fixed in the next release. I hope neither side is too close-minded to adopt the strong points of the other, or to look to other machines for more enhancements. I really think "unix people" get wrapped up in their missionary zeal sometimes and forget to look around them. It is obvious to me that the same happened to the original VMS designers; they didn't even look at TOPS-20!

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