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Aucbvax.4983 fa.works utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!works Fri Nov 6 04:21:37 1981 WorkS Digest V1 #32 >From JSol@RUTGERS Fri Nov 6 03:49:56 1981 WorkS Digest Friday, 6 Nov 1981 Volume 1 : Issue 32

Today's Topics: Apollo Domain Systems Software Engineering - OS/370 vs. Star Laurel Manual Available Fewer Programmers On Tomorrow's WorkStation System 38 - Description Query ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 5 Nov 1981 0544-MST From: Griss at UTAH-20 (Martin.Griss) Subject: Re: WorkS Digest V1 #31

I might comment that the Apollo Domain systems are 68000 based, do use the 2 68000 hack to provide the VM. They run a multiprocess OS, somewhat UNIX(tm) like; one can get about 5-9Mb per process. The machines also communicate very smoothly across a Ring network, and our experience with the OS, VM and network is very positive. We run their PASCAL and FORTRAN, use some ASM too. There is likely to be a C, a "eunice-like" system, and maybe even a full V7 Unix.

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Date: 5 Nov 1981 0940-PST From: Jim Archer <CSL.SUN.ARCHER AT SU-SCORE> Subject: Why would anyone want to use OS/360 as an example? To: Hamilton.ES at PARC-MAXC

I believe OS/360 passed 3 man-millenia somewhere in the early 1970's. Given the general relationship between total effort and the quality of the final product, pointing out that Star may have taken 200 man-years tends to make me suspicious rather than confident.

Jim

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Date: 5-Nov-81 11:46:35 PST (Thursday) From: Hamilton.ES at PARC-MAXC Subject: Re: Why would anyone want to use OS/360 as an example? To: Jim Archer <CSL.SUN.ARCHER AT SU-SCORE> Reply-To: Hamilton.ES @ PARC-MAXC

Before you get too "suspicious rather than confident" regarding Star, let me remind you that the project started some four or five years ago from ground zero -- all new hardware, microcode, network protocols, etc. Permit me to recommend Hugh Lauer's paper, "Observations on the Development of an Operating System" (which discusses the development of the Pilot operating system kernel underlying Star and the other Xerox 8000 series Ethernet products), to be published in the proceedings of the ACM/ SIGOPS 8th Symposium on Operating System Principles next month. Lauer's thesis is that every major new operating system takes around five clock years and dozens of man-years to move from conception to maturity.

--Bruce

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Date: 5 Nov 1981 1204-PST From: Rubin at SRI-KL Subject: Star vs OS/360 manpower To: hamilton.es at PARC-MAXC

If a 1,000 man months gets you a Star, then OS/360 should have been a universe. That system took 20,000, according to what I have heard. Excuse me, that's 20,000 man years. If you like comparisons, I believe it took the Egyptians about 20,000 man years to build the Great Pyramid at Cheops. In fact, the architecture of OS and its descendants rather reminds one of the Great Pyramid (not that I'm trying to compare IBM to pharaoh).

Who knows, it may even last as long.

--Darryl

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Date: 5 Nov 1981 11:17 PST From: Taft at PARC-MAXC Subject: Laurel manual available cc: Dake at PARC-MAXC, Taft at PARC-MAXC

Those of you who wanted to obtain Alto User's Handbooks may be interested to know that an expanded version of the Laurel Manual, which constituted one section of the Handbook, has recently been brought out as a PARC report. The abstract is reproduced below. If you would like a copy, please send a message to Sara Dake <DAKE@PARC-MAXC>.

Laurel is a user interface to an electronic mail system. Complementing it is a mail transport mechanism called Grapevine, which maintains a distributed data base to deal with naming, authentication, distribution lists, and mailbox location. A paper on Grapevine will be presented at next month's SOSP.

Ed Taft

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Laurel Manual by Douglas K. Brotz

Abstract: Laurel is an Alto-based, display-oriented computer mail system interface. It provides facilities to retrieve mail and present it for delivery, and to display, forward, classify, file, edit, and print messages. Additional features include facilities to read, write, and copy files, run programs, and a whole lot more. Laurel is a component of a distributed message system that has been in operation for several years in the Xerox Research Internet.

This document is a description of the facilities contained in Laurel. Several tips on proper use of computer mail facilities in a social context are included.

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Date: 5 November 1981 18:57 est From: SSteinberg.SoftArts at MIT-Multics Subject: New programming styles on Work Stations.

I think that the largest single difference will be the relatively smaller number of programmers at the level we traditionally consider programming. Instead of 3% or 25% of all people who use a system programming it at the bit or language level only .1% or .03% will be doing this on the Work Station of the future. How many people double clutch anymore?

A much larger group will still consider itself programmers although they will be dealing with constraint oriented systems such as DNA sequencers, VisiCalc, simulation systems, Star and so on. While many old time bit shovelers won't consider this programming it will be considered so by most people.

The quantities of (what is now called) programming which will go into these systems will be immense, but the dividends will be equally large. My feeling is that a lot of those early computer pioneer predictions will come to pass in the next few years.

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Date: 5 November 1981 18:53 est From: Frankston.SoftArts at MIT-Multics Subject: Re: paging/mmu on 432 Reply-To: Frankston at MIT-Multics (Bob Frankston) To: ARPAVAX.hickman at UCB-C70

Prime allows segments to be concatenated. This allows arrays >64K, but does seem to miss the point of segments as independent objects.

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Date: 5 November 1981 16:18-EST From: Stavros M. Macrakis <MACRAK MIT-MC AT> Subject: System 38

Is there any information available on the detailed structure of the IBM System 38? Stavros Macrakis Harvard

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End of WorkS Digest *******************

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